Watch out for Hurricane Libbey

This is worth its own post. The good people at Officiating.com have picked up on our Dave Libbey article and are incensed that we would harangue The Great Dave Libbey. Their forum has turned into a veritable Seattle Sportsnet hatefest: http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=51243.

Personally, I don’t understand it. I can understand supporting a fellow official, but these guys apparently kneel at the altar of TGDL. No matter what logic, video evidence, or written evidence of Libbey’s transgressions they’re provided, they refuse to see the light.

For those of you who have questioned the pettiness of officials over the years, good news: these folks have resorted to personal attacks on my character and the website to express their displeasure with the harsh words directed at Libbey. All those times you chanted “Take his whistle,” “Bull-shit,” or “Worst refs ever,” there’s a good chance they heard you, took that venom home, bottled it up, and unleashed it in a message board.

One further note: for all the affection they show TGDL, they still can’t spell his name right. I’m not too sure “Dave Libby” would be pleased with their efforts.

42 thoughts on “Watch out for Hurricane Libbey”

  1. Alex and Co.,

    I already posted part of this on an earlier blog entry but…..

    I will be running a statistical analysis on Dave Libbey’s fouls per game, tech fouls, DQ’s (foul that result in a player fouling out), and ejections, and comparing those stats to other Pac-10 referees who have been officiating over the last five years. I will also be looking at fouls and tech’s called in the last 2 mintues of the half and game since these are periods that are crucial to momentum and the game. Maybe then we can settle this through numbers! I will make sure to post my results in the next month or so, both here, and on the referee forum that is all upset with Alex and SeattleSportsnet. I will be using StatSheet.com as my statistical database.

    Matt H.

  2. I like that idea. No matter what you uncover, we’ll be prepared to write up a full analysis of the stats and either humbly accept defeat or proudly proclaim victory.

  3. Ha, our first SSN-related drama. I like it. Here’s to many more in the future.

    That officiating forum is pretty douchy. Then again, it is an officating forum LOL

  4. Perhaps Mr. Libbey (Libby) goes by an alias when he isn’t ruling the court. Will the real Dave Libbey (Libby) please sit down. Who could blame him adding an “e” the disguise is ingenious. Way to go, you riled them up…too funny!

  5. Like I said before, I don’t know if numbers will support the fact that Libbey sucks but his games have no flow and usually make both sides angry throughout the game while other refs are less involved and at the end of the game you often go away without ever noticing them. I think that is exactly what every fan wants right?

  6. to: Matt H., Alex, and Nate

    Remember what Mark Twain said about statistics. They do not mean diddly squat.

    Video evidende:

    I have looked at both videos. I do not see why everybody is complaining. The foul calls were good solid foul calls. Read the NCAA Men’s/Women’s Rules Book and Casebook.

    Written (Dave Gottlieb) evidence:

    Dave couldn’t officiate his way out of a wet paper bag with a blow torch. His articles are no evidence what so ever.

    “All those times you chanted “Take his whistle,” “Bull-shit,” or “Worst refs ever,” there’s a good chance they heard you, took that venom home, bottled it up, and unleashed it in a message board.”:

    You fans are so full of yourselves. Do you really think we take to heart the nonsense we hear in the stands. After the game we ROFLOAO about the nonsense we hear from the stands. Remember: We love it when the fans boo.

    Alex:

    All of the comments by the fans in your two Dave Libby blogs cannot be supported by rule or mechanics. When officials actually take the time to teach the rules to you and your readers, you blow us off as people who do not know our subject matter.

    My advice to your fans, who I assume all live in the Seattle area is to contact:

    Washington Interscholastic Activities
    Association
    435 Main Ave S
    Renton, WA 98057
    Phone: 425-687-8585 or 866-545-8638
    Fax: 425-747-9476
    http://www.WIAA.com

    to find out how to become a basketall official in the State of Washington. I do not know anyone at the WIAA but I am sure that the fine people working there would be very happy to help you on your journey of becoming a basketball official.

    MTD, Sr.

  7. Alex:
    You posted–
    “No matter what logic, video evidence, or written evidence of Libbey’s transgressions they’re provided, they refuse to see the light.”

    In the previous blog, you failed to provide any of the above. Maybe if you had done this and hadn’t contradicted yourself on several occasions, your opinion would have appeared more informed. Just a thought.

  8. The WIAA, like every other governing body in the state of Washington, is a cesspool of ineptitude that’s full of bad ideas and horrible decision makers in it for themselves and not the kids. These are the very same people who disqualified a championship-caliber Archbishop Murphy HS football team in 2007 from playoff contention because their dying coach (the late, great Terry Ennis who passed midseason) neglected to note that one single player had failed to take their physical within a certain amount of time. The WIAA is a joke and so is our state government. Why do you think we lost the Sonics?

  9. To MTD, Sr:
    You posted —
    “When officials actually take the time to teach the rules to you and your readers, you blow us off as people who do not know our subject matter.”

    How about we get some officials who know the rules before trying to “teach” them to us???

    For what it’s worth, most people who have played basketball competitively, can tell when a foul has or hasn’t occurred.

  10. Don:

    Are you high or something?

    Alex:

    Your answer is just what I expected of you. You can talk the talk, but you do not have what it takes to walk the walk. What are you afraid of? Are you afraid that you will not be able to handle learning that you do not have a clue about officiating basketball. There is only one way to prove me wrong and I do not think you have what it takes to walk the walk.

    By the way, the WIAA is not a government body, but a private organization made up of its member schools.

    MTD, Sr.

  11. Obviously MarkSr you DO take to heart the nonsense you hear from the fans, as evidenced by your sentence "We love it when the fans boo." And your continuing dialogue on this web site. If it didn't matter you would go away.. :>) Way to go Alex!

  12. As long as there are basketball fans in the world, referees will be reviled. No point in trying to change the world, Mark. It’s no use.

    You are not going to get through to a sports fan by using logic.

  13. I hereby issue a challenge:

    Alex should take a standard high school basketball rules test, post his answers, and then have MarkSr. grade it.

    If he gets as good or better a grade as a JV official would, Alex wins.

    If he doesn’t, Mark and Dave Libbey wins, and Alex posts an apology to both.

  14. I like the thought, but I refuse to apologize for anything I’ve written regarding Libbey.

    Honestly, everything bad I wrote about Dave Libbey is an indictment on Dave Libbey, not all of officiating in general. It’s nice that Libbey has a fellow referee or two to fight his battles for him, but I have nothing against Mark, Don, or any of the other refs that have come on here and challenged my way of thinking.

    As I’ve stated before, I speak on behalf of the fans, and fans do not like Dave Libbey. That doesn’t mean we hold those beliefs against other officials, or even the profession in general. When it comes to a pompous, arrogant, showboater like Libbey, the professionalism of the job is mitigated and frankly, I’m surprised officials like the aforementioned Mark and Don are okay with that. Think about your line of work. If someone who carried the same job title as you brought a negative spotlight onto the entire profession, you probably wouldn’t be too thrilled with that. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, or worthy of the spite directed at the lightning rod for criticism, but thanks to guilt by association you’ve become a victim of someone else’s wrongdoings.

    When I go to a Husky game and see three officials who are not Dave Libbey working the game, no thought of ill will or ominous foreboding ever crosses my mind. On the flip side, when I see Libbey take to the court, I get a bad feeling that shit’s about to come raining down from the heavens onto an otherwise peaceful basketball game.

    It’s unfortunate that Libbey has brought that perception of himself into the mainstream, and more unfortunate still that his constituents can’t see that we reserve that amount of respite solely for the man in question, as opposed to the field of officiating in general.

    Like I said, I hold nothing against other officials, this is strictly a personal grudge I hold against Libbey. Everyone makes mistakes at their job, and sometimes we appear to make mistakes when really we’re correct. Officiating is no exception. But when you cross the boundary of professionalism and negatively impact your entire line of work by irresponsibly becoming bigger than the job itself, that’s when you need to be taken down, and that’s why I’m calling Dave Libbey out.

  15. The conditions would have to be altered first. I would not issue and apology, but if my success or failure would help the refs sleep at night, then I would gladly accept the challenge.

  16. Mark Sr.,
    Grow a pair and shut the fuck up. Your incessant use of ROFL-derived acronyms shows that you obviously haven’t been laid over the course of the last 10 years (most of which I assume you spent playing WoW while not refereeing) and are missing the entire point of fans expressing their begrudged attitude against a one, Dave Libbey. There is nothing you or your cohorts can do to change our opinions.

  17. Kuwaiti, your opinion will never change because you lack the ability to think. You also lack the heart to put on the stripes. You’re just a tiny little punk-a$$ M.F. who alternates between beating the keyboard and beating your meat.

    That opinion will never change either.

    BNR in VA
    22 years in the military
    7 years officiating

  18. What’s sad is if you read the thread on the forum many of them say “I love it when fans boo!”

    This statement and this statement alone show their true character. More than anything, they love being in positions of power, which is why they love Dave Libbey so much.

    I feel sorry for them.

    Signed,
    Has Seen Too Many Egotistical Refs Ruin Basketball Games

  19. “Kuwaiti, your opinion will never change because you lack the ability to think. You also lack the heart to put on the stripes. You’re just a tiny little punk-a$$ M.F. who alternates between beating the keyboard and beating your meat.

    That opinion will never change either.

    BNR in VA
    22 years in the military
    7 years officiating”

    The fact that you spent 22 years in the military (thanks for your service) is completely irrelevant, save for the fact that you might have a special hatred in your heart against Kuwaitis.

  20. Not Kuwaitis, just “UW Kuwaiti” who thinks that being a fan is of relavence when comes to having a hatred for random people.

    And for the record I’m a staunch supporter of PAC-10 b-ball. Grew up in Cali and started watching when the Wizard of Westwood was still on the sideline. Proud of UCLA’s 3 straight Final Fours and rooted for UW when they made it deep into the tournament a few years ago.

    I have a low tolerance for people who hate someone for no or uninformed reasons.

    Still waiting for the answer as to why the NCAA puts Libbey/Libby deep into the NCAA tourney every year and why multiple conferences including the PAC-10 continue to utilize his services if he is so horrible. Are “fans” really more knowledgeable about the business of officiating?

    As for the supposed love-fest for Libby on officiating.com, what evidence is there of that? I read a few comments from people who actually interacted with Libby. I guess a “fan’s” opinion is suppose to carry more weight?

    And finally, why do you single out my post but ignore UW Kuwaiti’s? Because he agrees with you? Some could say you moderate this blog in the same fashion you accuse Libby of officiating a basketball game.

  21. Why are personal attacks on the character of Dave Libby ok but personal attacks on Alex a sign of pettiness? Why the double stantdard?

  22. “And finally, why do you single out my post but ignore UW Kuwaiti’s? Because he agrees with you? Some could say you moderate this blog in the same fashion you accuse Libby of officiating a basketball game.”

    When I moderate this blog, I don’t do a shuffle slide and emphatically pull my hands into my hips as if calling a block.

    And it’s my blog. I can do what I want, because it’s mine.

    Face.

  23. So you’re a hypocrite? I’m had an inkling and now it’s been comfirmed. And you say Libby is the control freak.

    It seems you can’t handle the heckling that referee tolerate and ignore every evening.

    I’ll leave you solve Starbucks financial woes. I now feel about 30 IQ points dumber for participating in this blog.

  24. If by “hypocrite” you mean “bona fide superstar” and by “comfirmed” you mean “confirmed,” then yes, I’m had an inkling you may be onto something.

  25. I'm a HS coach, and I've been reading the threads in officiating.com for years to learn more about the game. I have a few random observations…

    Having played the game a lot (organized or not) and even having coached for many years is certainly no indication that anyone has good knowledge of the rules of the game. And all one has to do is spend some time reading the threads over there to realize that. For example, do you have any idea how many players and coaches believe that there is such a thing as a foul for "reaching in," or "over-the-back?" No where in a rule book will you find "reaching in," or "over-the-back." There's no such thing! Referee's know that, but players don't, fans don't, and neither do many coaches.

    I agree that the folks who post in officiating.com can at times be pretty condescending and insulting towards coaches and fans. But so what! It's their web site, and if I don't appreciate it I don't have to go there. Besides, those refs put up with waaaaay too much BS from all directions, most of which is unfounded and uninformed. They should have a place where they can vent and tell stories about what a dumb ass some coach made of his self the night before. Personally, I find their brand of humor pretty entertaining.

    In no way has officiating.com turned into "a veritable Seattle Sportsnet hatefest." That's just silly and taking yourself way to serious. I count 27 threads on page 1, with one single thread about Libbey and this site. The fact is that board is way more active than this one. The fact is aside from some rants, that board serves as a valuable tool for learning the game. What value does this site serve beyond a venue to whine?

    If Mr Libbey is so terrible, then how come he keeps getting assigned? Your "proof" consists of anecdotal accounts of fans (including you) who don't have a flipping clue what they are talking about and are just angry becasue their team got beat. The video clips don't even back you up when you don't know what you're talking about.

    Referee's make mistakes, just like the rest of us in our jobs. There are good ones and bad ones, just like in our jobs. I agree that a Ref probably shouldn't talk to the crowd to rebut insults. But if I was a Ref, I'd pause to tell you where to stick it if you mouthed off to me. Their expected decorum suggests they should remain above the fray, keep quite in the face of ignorant & offensive comments and personal attacks. But it's not mandatory, and good for this Libbey for not being so tollerant. I'd stop to call an ass an ass if I was in his shoes too.

    Finally, I used to yell at Refs too. Then I was asked to volunteer to referee a summer league at a local junior college. That experience taught me respect for their job and I rarely ever raise my voice at an official- never from the bench, maybe from the stands.

    I suggest you learn to live with Libbey reffering Pac-10 games. Because he isn't going anywhere.

  26. Sorry, having looked, this web site provides a ton of valuable WA State specific sports info from HS to Pro. IT’s obviously a valuable tool, I’d use it if I lived in the great State of WA, and I appologize for saying this web site is just a place to whine. Clearly it’s one single thread in an entire web site.

  27. Libbey/Libby is terrible. I read many P10 BB forums and it seems like every teams fans think Libby hates their team.

    For those defending Libby, please explain this:
    ASU @ UofA. UofA has the ball with 20 seconds left and runs a pick and roll. Libby calls the pick as a moving screen, taking the ball from UofA. The call was VERY close and you could make a case either way, but Libby calls it in the last 20 seconds of the game against the home team (which he has a pattern of doing BTW)… But then good ol’ Dave strolls over to the UofA bench from the far end of the court for a chat instead of heading in the other direction. Dave of course ends up T’ing up an asst coach and basically single handedly ends the game. So I have the following questions:
    1. Why make the 50/50 call in the last 20 seconds? Doesn’t Dave want the players to decide the game?

    2. After making that call why in the world would he walk over to the UofA bench? Good or bad he had already made the call…Nothing good can happen when he walks over.

    3. Wouldn’t a good ref take into account the situation and do his best not to call that T at that point in the game? This is one of the main problems fans have with Libby, he seems to live for those types of situations where he has all that power and can use it.

    PS I am a Bruin fan and have hated the wildcats for years, but fair is fair.

    PPS The P10 commissioner retires after this year so I would be so sure how low Dave continues to stick around the P10.

  28. Regarding: “PPS The P10 commissioner retires after this year so I would be so sure how low Dave continues to stick around the P10.”

    The conference commissioner have no say in the officials. Each conference has a supervisor/coordinator of officials who has full autonomy in the hiring/firing of officials.

    I am on a D1 staff and we are expressly forbidden from contacting the commissioner for any reasons pertaining to officiating.

  29. I just read the box score of the UW vs. ASU game and you SeattleSportsNet fans should be very happy that UW won. Oh by the way, the R(eferee) in the game was Dave Libbey.

    ROFLMAO!!

    MTD, Sr.

  30. “I just read the box score of the UW vs. ASU game and you SeattleSportsNet fans should be very happy that UW won. Oh by the way, the R(eferee) in the game was Dave Libbey.”

    That is amazing, seeing as ASU played Washington STATE University and Dave Libbey reffed that game and not the game featuring UW and UA.

  31. I had the wrong visiting team in the ASU game; it was Washington State Univ. Same result: Dave Libbey was the R in the game.

    MTD, Sr.

  32. Alex can you please provide us with a count in chronological order that Mark Sr. “Rolled on the floor laughing my ass off.”

  33. I believe Alex is David Libby. The way Libby is described as officiating a basketball game is the same way Alex runs this blog.

  34. If I was such a bad guy, I would just delete all the negative comments. That’s not my style.

  35. Really if Alex WAS Dave Libby (ey) Do You REALLY think he would write such bad things about himself? Maybe he IS Dave Libbey and just wants to read all the wonderful things people write about him…ha ha! Alex it is a free country and you can write anything you want, guess what if you don’t like it then don’t read it.

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